Comments on: Yesterday’s Lunch & Learn http://www.pagantherapy.com/2007/12/08/yesterdays-lunch-learn/ Counseling Pagan clients, Pagan spiritual counseling techniques, and being a Pagan therapist. Sun, 05 Sep 2010 02:08:58 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Michael_Reeder http://www.pagantherapy.com/2007/12/08/yesterdays-lunch-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-10 Michael_Reeder Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:12:07 +0000 http://www.pagantherapy.com/?p=13#comment-10 BlackHawk -- Thanks for comments -- see answers below: 1. Did those assembled explain WHY they thought that patients in a public-institution setting would be immediately sent down the medication route? It might be comforting to some to blame the Christian-dominated system those of us in America live in, but without evidence of that being a causal factor here, I’d be inclined to think of that explanation as paranoia. Were you given any indication by those you spoke to? ** They were speaking off-the-cuff and not necessarily referring to specific incidents, just a general belief that this would happen. My ASSUMPTION at the time was that it had to do with the "psychotic"-seeming behaviors that Pagans can engage in such as knowing the future (divination), talking to spirits, talking to goddesses, and other psychic/occult methods of knowing and seeing outside the 5 senses. We had a discussion on how a counselor might start to differentiate between a useful or true experience of such versus a sick/psychotic episode. It's not easy and not always obvious how. Some suggestions had to do with whether or not the client is able to keep friends and family; able to tell the Contact to go away so he/she can focus on mundane reality; whether or not the client is happier and more in touch with living as a result of such activity; and other factors. I have run 2-hour workshops on this topic of telling psychosis from the spiritual -- its a hairy deal. Also a great subject for a future posting! 2. Briefly, what was the plug you gave that made animal sacrifice seem “not so bad”? I’m curious about the reasoning offered. Animal sacrifice is a touchy subject in the Pagan community and some readers of this blog will believe that it's wrong in all circumstances. The example I used was that of a chicken carefully raised at home (rather than factory farmed), quickly killed in temple (rather than whatever the slaughterhouse does to them), then offered as a thank you to the Lwa. My understanding is that such sacrifices are in many instances later prepared and eaten by the community. I compared this with a Christian church having a church-sponsored chicken dinner -- with none of the reverence or care shown the chicken. BlackHawk — Thanks for comments — see answers below:

1. Did those assembled explain WHY they thought that patients in a public-institution setting would be immediately sent down the medication route? It might be comforting to some to blame the Christian-dominated system those of us in America live in, but without evidence of that being a causal factor here, I’d be inclined to think of that explanation as paranoia. Were you given any indication by those you spoke to?

** They were speaking off-the-cuff and not necessarily referring to specific incidents, just a general belief that this would happen. My ASSUMPTION at the time was that it had to do with the “psychotic”-seeming behaviors that Pagans can engage in such as knowing the future (divination), talking to spirits, talking to goddesses, and other psychic/occult methods of knowing and seeing outside the 5 senses. We had a discussion on how a counselor might start to differentiate between a useful or true experience of such versus a sick/psychotic episode. It’s not easy and not always obvious how. Some suggestions had to do with whether or not the client is able to keep friends and family; able to tell the Contact to go away so he/she can focus on mundane reality; whether or not the client is happier and more in touch with living as a result of such activity; and other factors.

I have run 2-hour workshops on this topic of telling psychosis from the spiritual — its a hairy deal. Also a great subject for a future posting!

2. Briefly, what was the plug you gave that made animal sacrifice seem “not so bad”? I’m curious about the reasoning offered.

Animal sacrifice is a touchy subject in the Pagan community and some readers of this blog will believe that it’s wrong in all circumstances. The example I used was that of a chicken carefully raised at home (rather than factory farmed), quickly killed in temple (rather than whatever the slaughterhouse does to them), then offered as a thank you to the Lwa. My understanding is that such sacrifices are in many instances later prepared and eaten by the community. I compared this with a Christian church having a church-sponsored chicken dinner — with none of the reverence or care shown the chicken.

]]> By: BlackHawk http://www.pagantherapy.com/2007/12/08/yesterdays-lunch-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-8 BlackHawk Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:00:14 +0000 http://www.pagantherapy.com/?p=13#comment-8 I'm curious about two things: 1. Did those assembled explain WHY they thought that patients in a public-institution setting would be immediately sent down the medication route? It might be comforting to some to blame the Christian-dominated system those of us in America live in, but without evidence of that being a causal factor here, I'd be inclined to think of that explanation as paranoia. Were you given any indication by those you spoke to? 2. Briefly, what was the plug you gave that made animal sacrifice seem "not so bad"? I'm curious about the reasoning offered. I’m curious about two things:

1. Did those assembled explain WHY they thought that patients in a public-institution setting would be immediately sent down the medication route? It might be comforting to some to blame the Christian-dominated system those of us in America live in, but without evidence of that being a causal factor here, I’d be inclined to think of that explanation as paranoia. Were you given any indication by those you spoke to?

2. Briefly, what was the plug you gave that made animal sacrifice seem “not so bad”? I’m curious about the reasoning offered.

]]> By: Lady AMber Dawn http://www.pagantherapy.com/2007/12/08/yesterdays-lunch-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-7 Lady AMber Dawn Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:33:32 +0000 http://www.pagantherapy.com/?p=13#comment-7 Hi Let's NOT forget that Voudoun and Santeria ARE NOT the only African Diaspora religions that sacrifice. Mostly ALL ADR sacrifice something, if not a small chicken like a chicken; the sacrifice can be a sacred plant " like in some aspects of Umbanda" or a mixture of herbs like in the "Americanized Hoodoo" or in the sacrifice of time, energy and/or sweat (almost of ALL of them) Making that one religion sacrifice and the rest doesn't makes all of the ADRs very unbalanced and fosters negative stereotypes of ALL of them. Hi
Let’s NOT forget that Voudoun and Santeria ARE NOT the only African Diaspora religions that sacrifice. Mostly ALL ADR sacrifice something, if not a small chicken like a chicken; the sacrifice can be a sacred plant ” like in some aspects of Umbanda” or a mixture of herbs like in the “Americanized Hoodoo” or in the sacrifice of time, energy and/or sweat (almost of ALL of them)
Making that one religion sacrifice and the rest doesn’t makes all of the ADRs very unbalanced and fosters negative stereotypes of ALL of them.

]]> By: Angela http://www.pagantherapy.com/2007/12/08/yesterdays-lunch-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-5 Angela Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:57:21 +0000 http://www.pagantherapy.com/?p=13#comment-5 Are you really surprised by all of this? Frankly spirituality aside they tend to all have the attitude of "knowing" more then the person seeking help even when what their saying isn't working for the person in question....the attitude of your not trying hard enough, your not dong it right is pervasive. Like it or not we live in a culture where christianity has "taken over" too many have forgotten this counrty was founded on the idea of religoius freedom....but hey those founding fathers had no idea how "evil" we all are...o except they weren't christian either...shhh don't tell. O and as for medicating things away you bet they would. But can we blame them entirely? We live in a culture of instant cures...no one wants to do the hard and usually brutal work to heal when taking a pill is so much quicker. Sad people would rather endure the side effects of those drugs then do the work. It would be interesting to see what kind of responce you would get from the psychatrist side presenting the same material to them. And as for the question of if the counselor has beliefs on divination, possassion etc....well, not every key fits every door, not every counselor is the right fit for each client so it's really a matter of being wise enough to know one's limit's and repectfully enough even if disagreeing to make the referal. And as for rich, poor issue, lets face it that's not a pagan issue really the more financially better off usually get better treatment. Are you really surprised by all of this? Frankly spirituality aside they tend to all have the attitude of “knowing” more then the person seeking help even when what their saying isn’t working for the person in question….the attitude of your not trying hard enough, your not dong it right is pervasive. Like it or not we live in a culture where christianity has “taken over” too many have forgotten this counrty was founded on the idea of religoius freedom….but hey those founding fathers had no idea how “evil” we all are…o except they weren’t christian either…shhh don’t tell. O and as for medicating things away you bet they would. But can we blame them entirely? We live in a culture of instant cures…no one wants to do the hard and usually brutal work to heal when taking a pill is so much quicker. Sad people would rather endure the side effects of those drugs then do the work. It would be interesting to see what kind of responce you would get from the psychatrist side presenting the same material to them. And as for the question of if the counselor has beliefs on divination, possassion etc….well, not every key fits every door, not every counselor is the right fit for each client so it’s really a matter of being wise enough to know one’s limit’s and repectfully enough even if disagreeing to make the referal. And as for rich, poor issue, lets face it that’s not a pagan issue really the more financially better off usually get better treatment.

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